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Old 02-16-2008, 07:20 AM   #1
k9mania
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Exclamation New Drawing Contest 2/16/08 to 4/1/08

This drawing is very different than the others. We are going to try and come up with legislative ideas that people could take to their towns, counties, etc. to curb puppymills, byb, and purebred breeders that are not enhancing the breed for structure or performance. We need to be thorough and ask questions of each other so that every few days, I can summarize what we have to that point. We will have to pose challenges to suggestions as would organizations that would lobby against such legislation. Do not take challenges to your suggestions personally. We are on a mission. This is a worldwide problem so we will learn a lot about the process that exists in different countries. So when responding to the question think about at least 3 parts to the problem.

1st: What needs to be covered in the legislation to curb puppymills, byb, and for money purebred breeders? In otherwords, spay/neuter regs, how decide if someone should breed? How and who should determine when should spay/neuter? Etc. Remember that we are trying to make legislation that can be enforceable that will help curb the millions of dogs that end up in shelters, etc. We have such heated discussions about why people buy purebreds and criticize people who do not rescue but it is a 2 fold problem. It must be handled from the bottom up meaning the fewer unwanted dogs. The better care they can get at shelters and the fewer dogs euthanized.

2nd: Enforcement- Who and how should it be enforced? What should be the penalties? How to fund? What should penalties be?

3rd: What are the challenges going to be from lobby groups representing who? AKC?? etc.

I have a lawyer that will write this up legally after we have put in all of our input and figured out all the challenges and problems associated with such legislation. Then people can take it to their city, county, etc. and try and get some form of it at least considered. We have to start making a stand and get people to fight the lobby groups that protect these people. Get people that are not members to log on and put their 2 cents in also so we can have more input on the solution, the challenges to the suggestions, and the enforcement.
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Old 02-16-2008, 01:54 PM   #2
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1st:What needs to be covered in the legislation to curb puppymills, byb, and for money purebred breeders?

Free or low-cost spay/neuter programs.
This is actually working. Although still high, the number of animals euthanised in shelters each year has been cut in half in the past 20 years.

Mandatory spay/neuter of animals being adopted from public or private animal control agencies.
This has drawbacks. Shelters that are inundated with litters of puppies would be more likely to destroy them than to attempt to adopt them out. Perhaps vouchers for spay/neuter of an adopted animal under a certain age would be appropriate. Older animals SHOULD be altered prior to leaving a shelter.
As for existing animal owners, fees for licenses should be higher if their pets are intact.


Public education.
We are currently using euthanasia as the most effective control of pet-overpopulation. This needs to be changed.
We should be providing education regarding pet selection, what to look for in a breeder, and responsible pet ownership.


Licensing of breeders.
Anyone who deliberately breeds for commercial sale needs to be licensed regardless of the quantity produced. Backyard breeders are raking in thousands of tax-free dollars.
Perhaps breeders should be required to be a member of a breed club and be able to show proof, although the best any breed club can do at this time is to educate and appeal to its members to be responsible. The consumer protection laws of each state and the local animal control statutes remain the consumer's only protection if one deals with an unscrupulous breeder. There is no other agent overseeing the conduct and business practices of breeders. Various states are enacting and enforcing laws pertaining to breeders. We could look at the most successful and mimic them.
Laws regarding animal control are developed state by state. It would be up to us to educate and lobby with lawmakers. State by state, country by country, we could meet with officials and present a workable plan, possible using a form letter.
.

Microchipping.
A mandatory system would reduce the stress on shelter
capacity and give animals in shelters more time to be adopted.
Governments should promote microchips by offering a FREE lifetime
license when owners produce proof of a microchip. The strategy is
this; people won't have to pay up-front to underwrite animal
control. They pay when their pet becomes an animal control
problem. Poor people will not have to live in fear of the
government and will participate in low-cost community microchipping programs
.



2nd: Enforcement

One of Animal Control's top priorities should be to attempt to reduce animal related violations and achieve an increase in voluntary compliance. This goal would be achieved by vigorous enforcement, public education, and positive reinforcement for responsible pet owners who abide by the law.

Warnings, Citations, and Fines would not only encourage a healthy respect for laws and ordinances, but could help fund community programs. In addition, we currently pay tax dollars to kill animals. I would rather my tax dollars be spent on programs to reduce the number of animals and save existing animals.

3rd: What are the challenges going to be from lobby groups representing who? AKC?? etc.

There will always be opposition to legislation. By keeping animal welfare at the forefront and using penalties only when people refuse to acknowledge the need for humane treatment of animals, opposition would be minimal.


Thank you for this thread. Instead of fighting amongst ourselves, perhaps we can go to the root of the problem and make a difference.

Last edited by ann_hawes : 02-16-2008 at 02:11 PM.
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Old 02-16-2008, 02:07 PM   #3
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An after-thought...

Perhaps licensing fees could differ for breeders. Those that can provide documented health testing of potential breeding animals could have a waiver of a licensing fee.
Those that do no health checks could pay fees to support the enforcement of licensing, and those discovered breeding without any licensing could pay heavier fines, be required to spay/neuter their animals or risk losing the dogs.
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Old 02-17-2008, 05:46 PM   #4
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Should part of the legislation include that a person can only be allowed to breed if they can prove via past puppies that they are breediing for conformation and performance and that their lines have proven to enhance one or the other? I do not think that just any person with purebred dogs should be able to breed whether they are AKC registered or not.
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Old 02-18-2008, 12:55 PM   #5
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Quote:
Originally Posted by k9mania View Post
Should part of the legislation include that a person can only be allowed to breed if they can prove via past puppies that they are breediing for conformation and performance and that their lines have proven to enhance one or the other? I do not think that just any person with purebred dogs should be able to breed whether they are AKC registered or not.
If they had health certs and temperament testing it would be a start. Requiring those two things alone would eliminate MOST of the breeders in the U.S., and might get others to step up to the plate. Having proof from previous litters would make it impossible for new breeders to get a start.
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Old 02-18-2008, 01:34 PM   #6
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Is no one else going to participate in this discussion?

Ideas are needed!
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Old 02-19-2008, 12:25 AM   #7
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Question Come on this is important

Everyone join in we need as many ideas as possible. This group is always having arguments not discussions about whether people should buy purebreds or mixes. It starts with the breeders. Who should be allowed to breed? When and who should decide when dogs should be spayed/neutered? Read the question and participate.
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Old 02-19-2008, 04:33 PM   #8
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As a Canadian I think the focus should be on non-purebred, backyard breeders and commercial breeding (puppy mills) instead of regulating the AKC or in our case CKC requirements. Trust me, those that pay the big bucks for purebred registered (AKC or CKC) dogs will get animals with sound, breed quality dogs.

My suggestions:

1. Only licensed breeders should be allowed to breed and sell dogs
2. All dogs/puppies sold from one licenced breeder to another licenced breeder should have a contractual obligation to breed to insure breed purity.
3. All owners of un-fixed animals will be fined the cost of the spay or neutering and the animal will not be returned to the owner unless/until the animal is spayed or neutered.
4. No animal will be sold from or in relation to a commerical establishment (example: pet store)
5. No exotic animals will be allowed/sold (wild-domestic mixes)
6. All breeders must tatoo/chip each dog produced at his/her breeding facility.
7. All breeders must allow one season of non-breeding between each breeding
8. All breeders must cease breeding a female after X number of breedings - as defined by a non-biased organization (eg. vets and AKC/CKC).
9. All licensed breeders must undergo regular (monthly) inspections for health and wellbeing of all animals.
10. All aspects of these rules will be monitored and inforced by the Animal Control Agency. The Animal Control Agencies will be funded though breeder/owner licensing fees, agriculture divisions and federal policing divisions of the country. All actions taking and authorities provided will be upheld by all levels of government.

Not that I have thought a lot about this or anything...LOL
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Old 02-19-2008, 07:52 PM   #9
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No you haven't thought a lot about it But what about those who have AKC dogs and are just breeding to get money with no concern for matches. I can register my borders AKC and breed if I want but that does not mean that just because it is AKC registered that it meets all the structural breed standards. Of course, as we think about this, we must remember that the AKC, UKC, CKC have lobbyists that would fight major legislation.

Should vets report dogs they see that are not spayed and neutered?
Should dogs be spayed and neutered by a certain time?? And if so, would the person's vet decide instead of saying everyone at 6 months?

Could we have volunteers go out and check out puppies in the paper and get enough information to report them and then they get major fine. And the dogs will be spayed and neutered immediately or more fines.

Should the dogs be bred at what age? More than one breeding per year?

If pet quality AKC, should be mandatory spay/neuter?
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Old 02-19-2008, 10:15 PM   #10
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As far as the AKC, I don't know the ins and outs of what they consider a pure-bred vs the breed standards. I know from personal experience that show dogs (labs) are not necessarily the best field trial dogs, they may have all the breed characteristics but aren't what the sport requires. Not so long ago, many breeders/owners in Canada notices a distinct difference in labs bred in Canada and those bred in the US. Many of the US breeders were breeding for show standards or for speed, whereas in Canada we were breeding more for performance and strength. Both US and Canadian labs were 'pure-bred' but the characteristics were slightly different. Canadian labs were broader through the chest and many were much larger. To say that we will only allow 'breed standard' labs to breed would open a can of worms because not everyone will agree. I just gave labs as an example because I am familiar with that breed. Just base the breeding on purity via bloodlines; if the breeders can prove that they have pure bloodlines back say X generations then they can breed that animal and have it registered as a pure bred.

Regardless of whether or not we want to insist on maintaining purebred status for all the dogs, I think that if the breeders are held to the highest of standards and expect to make a profit on breeding they will be less inclined to breed mutts. I know that I would never pay $1000.00 for a mutt but I would (and have) for a purebred. Let's face it, if there were less mutts in the world and people had to dole out hundreds if not thousands for good quality animals, they will take better care of them. Or so I would hope!

As for the vets being the source of information. I have to say no. It may cause many people to not seek vet care for their animals if they are afraid that they will have the law on their tails.
I think that the whole licensing process can weed out those individual whom do not spay/neuter and if penalities or fines are to be levied then it should remain in the hands of policing or government officials.
As far a volunteers seeking out puppy mills, byb or other illegal breeding operations, a 1-800 tip line could be established to allow people to report those they suspect of illegally breeding animals.

A friend of mine works for the agriculture department and he was called on to investigate a puppy mill, he was greeted by a shotgun. Nothing happened thank goodness but it just reinforces my beleif that the police have the necessary training and legal clout to enforce the law, where ever it may apply.
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